I've watched and played in quite a bit of high ell 4v4rt games on east recently, and they really aren't spectacular at all.

I'm wondering, in the old days, when drayen, immessingaround, 66dragon6, Smerb, Mugaro, and everybody else played, what were they like? I don't mean purely from a competitive gameplay standpoint, but how were the interactions? Was there lots of trash talking, pre-teaming, and stabbing? Was the skill level a lot better then than it is now?

My one regret is not playing this game back in those days. I wish I was a part of those times.

At lvl50 rt:

0 Backstabbing, 0 afkers... i think i got backstabbed 4 times out of 700 games.
Everyone is decent, knows how to handle themselves, but in general you wont see gods of micro, so if youre a notch above the rest, you can easily outmicro people, i could outmicro 90-95% of 4s RTers ive met, with a few exceptions which i would match evenly.
People would listen to you, id usually plan out a strategy with my allies, i'd ask them to get specific units, to do a 2v2 split harass on each side, and 99% of the time, thats what happened.

In general, the game quality was fine, although some bad whiners said "their allies sucked" in RT, so blizzard thightened the matching range, killing any high level RT games in the process forever, bringing birth to excessive backstabbing, lossbotting, etc.. What people dont realize however, is that human beings are not perfect, a difference in skill between allies is normal, and when you play RT, you arent playing by yourself, youre with someone else, if you lose, its not your fault, its the entire's team fault.

It was really the golden age of wc3, i wish blizzard would fix it, id come back and play frequently, i loved the quality of games, the fast searchtimes, and reaching lvl50 and higher ranks. Sc2 really sucks forme comared to wc3... hopefully wc4 will come around, without the bull#%#@ of AT vs RT or 3AT players vs 4 RT players like Sc2 has.

A very adequate answer, good sir. Yes, 4v4rt in sc2 is an absolute joke. AT vs RT is so ridiculously hilarious of an idea. It doesn't even help search times that much. I had 20 min search times last time I played it, and teelo had like a 55 min search time.

I just miss the old maps of 4v4rt like northshire, twilight ruins, badlands, and ferelas.

i really do miss old maps myself, current maps are all so large its hard to get any decent action going early game, seems like its all expand and tech now.

Drayen, where's that old sig of yours? "I scout better than anyone else" or whatever, and the jpg of all the people giving you daps.

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Q u o t e:
A very adequate answer, good sir. Yes, 4v4rt in sc2 is an absolute joke. AT vs RT is so ridiculously hilarious of an idea. It doesn't even help search times that much. I had 20 min search times last time I played it, and teelo had like a 55 min search time.

I just miss the old maps of 4v4rt like northshire, twilight ruins, badlands, and ferelas.

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Just posting in here to stroke my own epeen over being mentioned by someone completely unprovoked.

Btw - just hit search about 5 minutes ago, lets see how long it takes tonight!

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Q u o t e:
Drayen, where's that old sig of yours? "I scout better than anyone else" or whatever, and the jpg of all the people giving you daps.

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Just google my name and check for images, should be the first two.

Personally what I miss more than anything was before the ELL changes to RT, when you could only match within 6 levels, and the top of RT ladder (at least on USEast) was all pretty solid 2v2 players. Back in the days of eriko, stfu_plz, pow.optimum, newbiee[cf], 666-hellraiders, etc.

That's what I miss more than anything. Although I'll admit I'm having fun playing 4v4 rt right now, even if it takes an hour to find a game.

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Q u o t e:
Personally what I miss more than anything was before the ELL changes to RT, when you could only match within 6 levels, and the top of RT ladder (at least on USEast) was all pretty solid 2v2 players. Back in the days of eriko, stfu_plz, pow.optimum, newbiee[cf], 666-hellraiders, etc.

That's what I miss more than anything. Although I'll admit I'm having fun playing 4v4 rt right now, even if it takes an hour to find a game.

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It was fun, i was lvl24 RT in 2v2 back then.. but at that point there were only 10-15 people in my matching range. The ELL change was necessary, and honestly it kept a good player balance while getting us short searchtimes, but blizzard maintained the search range quite horribly and everything fell apart... 2v2 is probably the best position in all of RT right now though.