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  • 0. Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 04:08:24 PM PDT
Have the developers given any thought to equalizing the mobility for classes this time around? In d2 it was a big issue; sorceresses had teleport, and therefore for things like MF/Rushes/farming/quests/etc, a sorc was vital. Anyone else trying to do the same thing would take 5x as long. This led to terrible things, like when a ladder reset, 90% of new characters are sorcs, etc. Is there any intentional balance around letting characters explore a little more fairly now?
We've seen that Wizards will get teleport this time around, but also there was the perhaps improved leap attack on the barbarian, which is one mobility skill, and another in the form of his "Charge" dash that was used a lot in the gameplay video. These both seem to hint that classes will get more options for getting around. But the witch doctor looked slow and cumbersome. Unless he can mount any of those wolves (not in *that* way), hes going to be one slow fatty
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Fallingblack
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  • 1. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 05:43:31 PM PDT
The difference with the WD is that he doesn't need to get away, per se, if he can have his pets tank. Like a necro, who didn't need an escape mechanism.

You're looking at these skills as if they were designed just for casual travel around a map and they aren't. Also keep in mind that these skills are governed by resources: mana for the wiz, and fury for the barb. I'm sure the barb won't be able to just go leaping around willy-nilly without being engaged in combat, or else...well, he wouldn't be able to.
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Bashiok
Blizzard Poster
  • 2. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 07:21:50 PM PDT
We definitely want to avoid as best as possible a single class being far and away better than all others at something (such as mobility) and thus used exclusively for specific tasks.

As long as there is choice and variety in the game there's going to be one solution that gains a general consensus as being the best at "X". The hope and the intent is to make the difference between the best and second best, third best, etc. as close to imperceptible as possible so that you can use what ever class/character you want, what ever build you want, and not feel that you're far and away below the abilities of something else. That's balance in choice.

We're taking a close look at what those specific mobility issues were in Diablo II and could be in Diablo III, and yes we're certainly trying to be a bit smarter about planning for it. You specifically mention the witch doctor. With the way he plays and feels a big warp or jump around skill just doesn't really seem right for him, but he may have a trick or two up his sleeve...

[ Post edited by Bashiok ]

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Jynxed-oblivion
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  • 3. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 07:27:19 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
We definitely want to avoid as best as possible a single class being far and away better than all others at something (such as mobility) and thus used exclusively for specific tasks.

As long as there is choice and variety in the game there's going to be one solution that gains a general consensus as being the best at "X". The hope and the intent is to make the difference between the best and second best, third best, etc. as close to imperceptible as possible so that you can use what ever class/character you want, what ever build you want, and not feel that you're far and away below the abilities of something else. That's balance in choice.

We're taking a close look at what those specific mobility issues were in Diablo II and could be in Diablo III, and yes we're certainly trying to be a bit smarter about planning for it. You specifically mention the witch doctor. With the way he plays and feels a big warp or jump around skill just doesn't really seem right for him, but he may have a trick or two up his sleeve...

Such as?!?! I HATE CLIFF HANGERS!!!
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Roy_matsuya
  • USWest
  • 4. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 07:41:00 PM PDT
dun Dun DUUUUUUUN!
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Wulfdayne
  • USWest
  • 5. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 08:18:41 PM PDT
Talking about the WD having some form of fast travel makes me think of the WD in that 007 movie where he just rose up out of the ground in some sceens. Maybe as a slightly slower version of teleport the WD casts a spell that has the ground swallow him up and then 'pop out' where u clicked on the map. As an added rune effect maybe he pops up with zombies, or mongrols, or other goodies for the monsters. :)
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Arktis-eisen149
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  • 7. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 09:00:09 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Talking about the WD having some form of fast travel makes me think of the WD in that 007 movie where he just rose up out of the ground in some sceens. Maybe as a slightly slower version of teleport the WD casts a spell that has the ground swallow him up and then 'pop out' where u clicked on the map. As an added rune effect maybe he pops up with zombies, or mongrols, or other goodies for the monsters. :)


I like it :-P
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Arktis-eisen149
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  • 9. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 09:36:12 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Sorry, but I think Baron Samedi's grave-popping spells would be a little too much like teleport.
I think bashiok accidentally revealed to us this little hint, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuJxGKTO7S8#t=1m18s



I certainly do hope theres at least one helm that loops like a top hat on him, though!!


He could just smoke some funky grass and fly or something.Witch Doctors are ever so versatile.

I also wondered about this watching the gameplay demo some time ago. There are only so many ways to get over a chasm. You can't be too picky about the mechanics because the effect will essentially be the same. Teleport....jump...pole vault....Indiana Jones style whip swing...I think a something that is identical to teleport in function, but completely different to it in concept is completely fine. Of course the demo i refer to is a very early showing. There may not be a mandatory chasm to clear in the final product, as it may have been something placed into the dungeon exclusively to show off the jump
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Zhugekongming
  • USWest
  • 10. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/06/2009 11:16:04 PM PDT
This is an important topic. With the recent planned ladder reset in Diablo 2 it's gotten me thinking about what class of character I want to start with. I normally make a sorc because she is the only class that can be an effective magic finder without runewords...And I am having a real hard time deciding what I want to pick because the other classes are just so limited without teleport. Trying to do MF runs on Andy or Meph without teleport isnt really possible to do in a timely fashion and Key runs are all but out of the question...but I am so sick of using a sorc early....

My hopes for D3;

From a personal stand-point I would rather the dungeons be much longer and harder to get to the end of but have a waypoint nearer to the boss. I think it would be kind of cool to have a major dungeon take 3-5 days to get through and have it so you are gaining a good amount of XP so you don't need to do boring repetitive trist/baal type runs. This way, if you need better gear you can always go back with a group and use the waypoint to start near the boss and kill the boss for a chance at some better loot to help you through the next big dungeon.

There should also be smaller dungeons that only take a half-hour to hour to get through but these should have several bosses (not unique monster) that you can fight as you progress so it isn't just a boring trek through a bunch of 1 shot-to-kill hordes that don't drop anything worth a damn to get to a single boss monster that might drop something good.

I also wouldn't mind seeing the drop tables made a little more specific for bosses. This would make certain bosses more desirable to run for certain classes that use those specific items and also help break up the monotony of just running 2-3 boss monsters...all of which drop 90% of the same stuff.
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Yllisar
  • USWest
  • 15. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/07/2009 04:08:24 AM PDT
Well as long as teleport requires a decent amount of mana, and as long as it it not possible to obtain essentially infinite mana as was the case in D2, then I don't see teleport as being much of an aid in mobility.

Think about it, from what we have seen, the primary source of mana regen in D3 will be mana orbs. These drop from slain monsters. So, if you just go teleporting through a dungeon, without killing anything, sooner or later you will run out of mana. And have a horde of angry monsters chasing you. And you will have no mana. And no way to get mana. Because you have no mana. And then you will die.

So, teleport will only be overpowered / essential if blizzard chooses to make it that way. We'll just have to wait and see on that one.
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Krytha
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  • 16. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/07/2009 06:46:22 AM PDT
I was actually thinking along those lines. But, in my idea, the witch doctor does more along the lines of a possession... So his body sorta turns into smoke or something and you get to take over a monster's body - from there you can attack other monsters with that monster, or you can exit the body leaving it stunned (all this taking a horrendous amount of mana). Theoretically, a witch doctor, with enough mana, could just jump from monster to monster a la teleport, providing there were enough monsters and mana to go around. There are probably enormous balance issues to iron out with an idea like that, but I think it's cool and fitting.
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Grug
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  • 17. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/07/2009 06:47:31 AM PDT
Perhaps there is a spell that makes the Witch Doctor become a ghost for a few moments, unable to attack or be attacked. He is insubstantial and can float above the ground, letting him pass through enemies and over small gaps. This could be used to escape when surrounded, as well as be safe while his various poisons and minions do the work for him.
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Fallingblack
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  • 18. Re: Equal mobility for classes?   07/07/2009 06:59:36 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Think about it, from what we have seen, the primary source of mana regen in D3 will be mana orbs.


Actually, no. Mana orbs drop for a wiz who has skills in that particular passive. The rest is fueled by either different passives or just waiting. (From what we know so far)
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