Battle.net - English Forums -> Boss fights globe drops?

090876

Europe

20. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 02:52:17 PM PDT

quote reply

Q u o t e:

Well, regardless of what the end product is let's just agree that you'll be negative and immediately critical of it.

Of course i am negative. When you talk about "giving us health according to boss behaviour", i legitimately smells something very wrong.

Am i wrong when i assume that behind what you have to say on the matter, you speak more or less about scripted boss battles ?

Be affirmative and i know i can start worrying, because no matter how its done, scripted boss battles with health being released to the players at precise moments cant be better than say, stocking potions and chugging them when i decide, against a Boss who fights with all he got from start to the end.

Scripted encounters can surely tells better and more "epic" stories, but kills replayability aswell. Cause when you know exactly when to stand back, when going behind this rock to the right, then going upfront for 3 seconds to pick health orbs and so on....well you see the point. Regurgitance and white noise ahead.... even if you badly want that phat (hopefully totally random, not from a list) loot.

Even if i know that D2 Diablo is going to Red Lightning Hose me, Cold Touch me, i dont know exactly when, how many times etc.. That is not scripted, well not as much as WoW bosses. And what you hint feels like the later.

Edited sorry for the potentially bad english im not native

[ Post edited by 090876 ]

Demon-chan

Europe

21. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:03:09 PM PDT

quote reply

I'm also not a fan of these scripted "give health potion" events. Ever played "Metroid Prime Corruption"?
The bosses drop health-restoring particles at certain moments (normally after you finish one of the stages of the boss battles). It's really useful because you can count on the drops - but it doesn't make the boss fights challenging and fun after the first attempt - and sometimes not even ON the first attempt (when bosses drop in the same way several times during the fight).

I don't know what I prefer, scripted events or potion drinking. To me but "solutions" don't seem like fun solutions. But I also believe in Blizzard, they've never disappointed me so far. They will find a fun solution.

[ Post edited by Demon-chan ]

Mardukdeathbane

Europe

22. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:07:30 PM PDT

quote reply

Q u o t e:

Of course i am negative. When you talk about "giving us health according to boss behaviour", i legitimately smells something very wrong.

Am i wrong when i assume that behind what you have to say on the matter, you speak more or less about scripted boss battles ?

Be affirmative and i know i can start worrying, because no matter how its done, scripted boss battles with health being released to the players at precise moments cant be better than say, stocking potions and chugging them when i decide, against a Boss who fights with all he got from start to the end.

Scripted encounters can surely tells better and more "epic" stories, but kills replayability aswell. Cause when you know exactly when to stand back, when going behind this rock to the right, then going upfront for 3 seconds to pick health orbs and so on....well you see the point. Regurgitance and white noise ahead.... even if you badly want that phat (hopefully totally random, not from a list) loot.

Even if i know that Diablo is going to Red Lightning Hose me, Cold Touch me, i dont know exactly when, how many times etc.. That is not scripted, well not as much as WoW bosses. And what you hint feels like the later.

It doesn't need to be something like a limited number of pillars that some team mate would just steal, leaving others to die.
Nor does it need to be "at 50% HP the boss ALWAYS does this thing to give you orbs"

Ever played Zelda?
Many of the bosses summon lesser minions now and then that give you arrows/magic when killed so that you can't get stuck if you run out of stuff that is needed to kill the boss.

There could be stuff like a boss semi-randomly throwing a huge extra-high damage fireball that disperses into a few health globes in like 5 seconds after hits the floor as a reward to you for surviving it.
This would do the same thing Zelda's system did.
If you get low on supplies you need to play defensive until you can go back on offense.

My hands smell like coconut.
-Bashiok

Kurryz

Europe

23. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:15:00 PM PDT

quote reply

Q u o t e:

Of course i am negative. When you talk about "giving us health according to boss behaviour", i legitimately smells something very wrong.

Am i wrong when i assume that behind what you have to say on the matter, you speak more or less about scripted boss battles ?

Be affirmative and i know i can start worrying, because no matter how its done, scripted boss battles with health being released to the players at precise moments cant be better than say, stocking potions and chugging them when i decide, against a Boss who fights with all he got from start to the end.

Scripted encounters can surely tells better and more "epic" stories, but kills replayability aswell. Cause when you know exactly when to stand back, when going behind this rock to the right, then going upfront for 3 seconds to pick health orbs and so on....well you see the point. Regurgitance and white noise ahead.... even if you badly want that phat (hopefully totally random, not from a list) loot.

Even if i know that D2 Diablo is going to Red Lightning Hose me, Cold Touch me, i dont know exactly when, how many times etc.. That is not scripted, well not as much as WoW bosses. And what you hint feels like the later.

Edited sorry for the potentially bad english im not native

Oh so it's reading @%!@ that isn't there into Bashiok's posts and being a douche about it time eh? Well hello there mr. forum killing cancer.
Also, unless you're a complete asshat it's evident that he meant that health orbs will not be distributed in the same way in -for example- the Diablo fight and the Siege breaker fight. Which doesn't say a damn about how they will be distributed, so enough asshattery already.
And did you pull that part with the scripted boss fights right out of your arse?

[ Post edited by Kurryz ]

Bashiok

Blizzard Poster

25. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:29:09 PM PDT

quote reply

Q u o t e:
Even if i know that D2 Diablo is going to Red Lightning Hose me, Cold Touch me, i dont know exactly when, how many times etc..

I hope you're not calling that an interesting fight, or saying Diablo II was replayable because it had no mechanics beyond the boss' abilities.

In Diablo III we want at least some boss fights that aren't defined simply by having a creature with more health, unique art, and more powerful abilities. We want there to be something more to them, tell a story, have more unique mechanics that make sense for the boss.

As far as the original topic, when health globes could be delivered during a boss fight, there's really no limit for how they could be delivered. Take the King Leoric fight, they were delivered through creatures that he summoned, normal skeletons. Every boss could essentially have the same thing, normal enemies around him that can be killed for the potential at getting a health globe drop. Or, you could have something more interesting ... like a boss that does a special attack that has the ability to break open some large corpse storage tanks that are in his lair. The player has to lead the boss to the tank and try to invoke the special attack so he'll break the tank open, which unleashes some health globes. You could even treat the tank (code-wise) as a normal creature, meaning abilities and items could augment the number that drop and amount they heal, etc. giving some control to the individual player. If you don't need the health you can ignore the mechanic, but it could be a way for players to try to game the boss and make sure they can survive the fight. Totally hypothetical, we don't have a fight that resembles what I described, but it's a possible delivery system.

I disagree that having bosses that do something more than simply cast the spells they're given to cast kills replayability.

Bero

Europe

26. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:39:34 PM PDT

quote reply

I'm just not that into the idea of healing at all .. it's just not realistic to me .. it converts the life of ur char into a little red bar that has to be refilled every few sec by clicking on potion or orb or whatever .. in D2 or WoW u refill the bar maybe 2-5 times/sec .. don call that life
i know its a fantasy game but the idea of instant healing doesn't make sense to me and draws u far away from the definition of life
i liked the idea in The Witcher that u have to meditate to keep going .. i don say its the perfect one but it surely approached the idea
i don know .. make magic/physical shields/absorbs/.. etc but don tell me that i got couple of hits i've 1 hp left to die and my poor option is to click something to get that number to hundreds
that's the loop every game i ever seen couldn't get out of

Johnor

USEast

27. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:42:38 PM PDT

quote reply

@Bero

Does being able to defeat a Prime Evil solo make sense?

Laughing.jackal

USEast

29. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:45:55 PM PDT

quote reply

That sounds pretty awesome, Bashiok.

Kurryz

Europe

30. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:47:14 PM PDT

quote reply

Q u o t e:

I hope you're not calling that an interesting fight, or saying Diablo II was replayable because it had no mechanics beyond the boss' abilities.

In Diablo III we want at least some boss fights that aren't defined simply by having a creature with more health, unique art, and more powerful abilities. We want there to be something more to them, tell a story, have more unique mechanics that make sense for the boss.

As far as the original topic, when health globes could be delivered during a boss fight, there's really no limit for how they could be delivered. Take the King Leoric fight, they were delivered through creatures that he summoned, normal skeletons. Every boss could essentially have the same thing, normal enemies around him that can be killed for the potential at getting a health globe drop. Or, you could have something more interesting ... like a boss that does a special attack that has the ability to break open some large corpse storage tanks that are in his lair. The player has to lead the boss to the tank and try to invoke the special attack so he'll break the tank open, which unleashes some health globes. You could even treat the tank (code-wise) as a normal creature, meaning abilities and items could augment the number that drop and amount they heal, etc. giving some control to the individual player. If you don't need the health you can ignore the mechanic, but it could be a way for players to try to game the boss and make sure they can survive the fight. Totally hypothetical, we don't have a fight that resembles what I described, but it's a possible delivery system.

I disagree that having bosses that do something more than simply cast the spells they're given to cast kills replayability.

I must say, that sounds really cool, do you have a real example you guys are toying around with that you could tease us with? If not, well, that does sound really good, it does, like a previous post mentioned, remind a fair bit of the LoZ mechanics, which are interesting, it's good fun trying to make the darknut in the spirit temple break them pillars in case you get hurt. It's similar, but i guess there are a lot more possibilities, as LoZ generally delivers through either pillars or jars around the room (the latter being rather lame).
On a related note, will boss fights require (or allow you to, if you want to) interact with the environment, be it for health globes or damage, like making walls fall onto their faces etc? We know that normal enemies can be brutally dispatched that way, but what about bosses?

Tangolima12

USEast

31. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:47:32 PM PDT

quote reply

I dont think boss encounters will be scripted, your not going to always know what the boss is going to do, if anything they will be more intelligent than bosses in the previous games. Like I can run around a corner in the Chaos Sanctuary, and Diablos fire doesnt hurt me, then i can heal up and restock my belt... all the while he stomps around aimlessly. Then when Im low agin, rinse and repeat, b/c I have a whole inventory stocked full of Rejuvs! To me, that is just as routine, and scripted as the boss doing the same thing, at the same time, everytime... I know whats guna happen, and I dont care, b/c I just run away, restock, come back, use the same attack... and Im not guna die.

Who really enjoyed xmuting pots, or just keeping them stocked in general? Maybe some of you did, and thats fine. Personally I got sick of it after a while, they take up inventory space, and in certain places with certain builds, you just need rejuvs, and it was a tedious task to stay stocked up on them. They will still have pots for an emergency heal, they already said that. So to me its just one less thing I need to worry about.

This post is getting long, so ill just say that IMO, and thats IMO, as much as I love and still play D1,2&lod, I think 3 is going to be a breath of fresh air to the series/genre. Have some faith!! lol, I havent heard one complaint from anyone who played the demo, not to say there hasnt been any, but Ive not herd them. All I hear is "OMG this game is guna rock" "freakin awesome" "so much fun and its just a demo". It will be ok, these guys know whats up with Diablo, have faith... have patience.. that is all.

Bero

Europe

34. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 03:59:20 PM PDT

quote reply

Q u o t e:
@Bero

Does being able to defeat a Prime Evil solo make sense?

u see .. what i'm talking about make it harder to make sense ..
in a boss fight the boss has often every advantage to taking me down except i have the killer : infinite "hp" (whos the boss now ***** !! )
that is what most games that have healing system rely on

[ Post edited by Bero ]

Kurryz

Europe

35. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 04:03:44 PM PDT

quote reply

Q u o t e:

u see .. what i'm talking about make it harder to make sense ..
in a boss fight the boss has often every advantage to taking me down except i have the killer : infinite "hp" (whos the boss now ***** !! )
that is what most games that have healing system rely on

I can type random letters too. UAEFEAFNEAFEA, my mistake, no cruise control there. eafeageageagaesageageagaes

Kurryz

Europe

38. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 04:15:51 PM PDT

quote reply

Q u o t e:

Also what Happens if you get people that just suck at the game in your game on your team if there's only a 4 player limit cap per game, If your replaying a boss and that happens, that's epic boring /fail and a complete hassle to boot.

Q u o t e:

at the game in your game on your team

'nuff said.

Whydontyoustray

USEast

39. Re: Boss fights globe drops? 06/08/2009 04:24:59 PM PDT

quote reply

Oh crikey... there are healing spells.

I know it.

There are healing spells in my diablo 2... (Seriously, holy bolt and prayer never counted),

I dont even know what to say...

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