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Q u o t e:


I hope you don't tie that to money or such. The best way would probably be to tie it to an experience gain cutdown, or have a skill do more damage the more often you use a rune with it, and when you put a new rune in, you'd have it to use several times until you do more damage again. A bit like the Whilrwind-Skill, which has a minus damage in Diablo II on the first levels.

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What about some type of cooldown? The first time a skill gets a rune, the rune's effects would be 100% effective. However, if you swap runes, then for the next x minutes, there would be a penalty of, say, 30% (of damage, range, etc). Something like that.

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Q u o t e:
Bash,

You were quoted as saying that the high end runes are going to be rare. With that being said, are we talking "Zod" rare? If so, doesnt that make that rune a form of currency? I'm stil trying to wrap my head around how youre NOT going to end up having these runes as a form of currency.. Thanks bud!

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They have already definitively stated that there will be no items with "Zod" drop rates.

Runes are only currency in Diablo II due to very heavy duping.. they would be too rare otherwise. Expect their to be a designed common currency in Diablo III (most likely gold)

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Q u o t e:
Originally posted by Wogrim

It might have worked if they were actually as rare as intended (i.e. no duping or anything like that).

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I disagree. Grief, Infinity, Faith, Exile, Beast, Enigma, etc, are all much too powerful, no matter how rare they are. Especially Grief.

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Q u o t e:

I disagree. Grief, Infinity, Faith, Exile, Beast, Enigma, etc, are all much too powerful, no matter how rare they are. Especially Grief.

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Too true.

I like the idea of swapping out runes on the cheap early on while making the cost prohibitive at later levels or rune values (or both). I very much hope the rarest runes aren't ridiculously so while at the same time consumable when replaced. Right now, it sounds nice that the nice high rune you found wouldn't be destroyed if you want to switch it out, but if that's the way it works, after a year the market will be flooded with high runes of every type and only a couple of the most-desired high runes will be worth anything at all.

Consumption of the higher runes keeps their desirability up while at the same time prevents the majority of players from instantly sticking in their 20 GG-best runes once their new character reaches the minimum required level (a la D2). At the same time, consumption of the higher runes keeps the market for lower runes (consumable or not) fresh, as people will have to settle for those more often than they'd like. This means newly created characters will hopefully be using mostly lower runes until they reach truly high level, even if you've been playing the game for a while.

Have they stated or hinted at how many rune tiers there will be? Surely it'll be three at a minimum and, ideally, five or more.

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Q u o t e:
The intent isn't for runes to be hot-swappable or interchangeable at any time. The ability to change the rune is the point of any comments made about switching them around, not that we want to allow easy and free interchangeable runes. What we do intend is for people to be able to try different runes without fear of losing the rune, or permanently changing the way a skill works.

Early design thoughts on rune swapping are that there would be some sort of cost to remove them so a new one could be put in its place. Early in the character's life it would be inexpensive enough so it isn't prohibitive, as we want to encourage experimentation, but later on the cost would become more substantial.

In addition, the high end runes are intended to be very rare. So while you're looking for them we want you to be able to use the runes you have without fear of losing them or using them incorrectly. Being able to experiment with different runes along the way to creating your perfect character is more fun, and potentially enlightening to the different ways your character can be used.

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I don't really think I like this... Paying to have them removed? I mean Think about it.... You have this rune in your ability.... You cant get it out yourself.... So you have to go to a Runes Crafter... Or what have you... to get it removed... Hummm So I have to go all the way back to town... Get the Rune removed for a price go back into the field to test it just to find out that it sucked worse then it did... THEN I have to TP back to town.... No wait..... TPs are Rare now.... Cant do that what a waste... Hummm Well I'll just use this ability over here then... I dont like it as much as the other one but I'll have to because the rune made it suck worse then it......

Or you know.

Put rune in.
Walk out of town.
Test.
Walk back in town.
Switch.
Walk out of town.
Test.

Not that hard. He said early in the game runes are going to be cheap to switch, since they want people to experiment. Higher tiers or runes just take the effect further, so if you've tested one hydra you know what all tiers of it do. I doubt there'll be that many different types of runes.

wtf stupid captcha

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Q u o t e:
The currency thing keeps coming up so let me try to address that as best I can.

High runes in Diablo II became a currency for a few reasons. One (and most importantly) because they were necessary to create some of the most powerful/sought after items in the game post-1.10, two because they were duplicated allowing enough of them to be common enough to become a currency, and three the actual currency (gold) was essentially worthless. Before high runes the currency was Stones of Jordan, again, duping is the main issue here for how they were allowed to become a common currency.

If they were only being picked up legitimately there simply wouldn't be enough of them circulating to become a common currency.

Now, just because word "rune" is used for the runes in Diablo III it does not mean:
A. They will be the most sought after items in the game (although they could be)
B. Duping will be an issue allowing rare items to become common
C. There won't be a better and more appropriate currency

BUT, despite all this, we still want item trades to be useful. There is nothing wrong with people trading items for other items. It only becomes an issue when the barrier of entry into general trading becomes prohibitive due to secondary currency markets based on illegitimate items. And it won't happen as long as there is a intentional and low-barrier currency (gold), and the game is designed and maintained as to not allow creation of illegitimate items.

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I predict that this quote will be linked to quite frequently in order to settle some recurring (and annoying) debates here. While these things have been stated previously by other posters, it is nice to have a shining blue stamp of legitimacy to them.
:-)

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Q u o t e:
High runes in Diablo II became a currency for a few reasons. One (and most importantly) because they were necessary to create some of the most powerful/sought after items in the game post-1.10, two because they were duplicated allowing enough of them to be common enough to become a currency, and three the actual currency (gold) was essentially worthless. Before high runes the currency was Stones of Jordan, again, duping is the main issue here for how they were allowed to become a common currency.

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So... After years cohabiting with dupers and blizzard don't tanking and serious action (a definitive action) about then, you want we believe D3 is out of any duper actions? Please prove cleaning D2 first.

well the rune system maybe nice, but they really should be destroyed if unsocked.

reason ( for destruction):

+ less runes = runes got more worth
+ better trade = there not much runes cause they get destroyed
+ expensive experience to test each rune cause of destruction ( well heres the Fact why i whant it, no one should have a perfect char with just simple cheap testings )
+ more fun cause of finding runes cause they'r kinda rare

Make for high Runes a new class, call them "Epic Runes", make them soulbound and finished!

And god damn kick those gold-sellers in their butts to make it impossible that they destroy the balancing like in Diablo 2!!! Blizzard, if you agree that, you even could give away all items for free, it would be the same effect. THE PEPOLE should have to PLAY and FIND their Items and not pay some cheap dollars for any Item with an dropchance of 0.001% that destroys the balancing and make the Game boring.

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Q u o t e:
The intent isn't for runes to be hot-swappable or interchangeable at any time. The ability to change the rune is the point of any comments made about switching them around, not that we want to allow easy and free interchangeable runes. What we do intend is for people to be able to try different runes without fear of losing the rune, or permanently changing the way a skill works.

Early design thoughts on rune swapping are that there would be some sort of cost to remove them so a new one could be put in its place. Early in the character's life it would be inexpensive enough so it isn't prohibitive, as we want to encourage experimentation, but later on the cost would become more substantial.

In addition, the high end runes are intended to be very rare. So while you're looking for them we want you to be able to use the runes you have without fear of losing them or using them incorrectly. Being able to experiment with different runes along the way to creating your perfect character is more fun, and potentially enlightening to the different ways your character can be used.

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bad bad bad bad bad bad bad, and more bad, bad bad idea.

This effectively eliminates runes as a means of trade. If there are, say, 5 different kinds of runes, players will now have 5 slots in their stash dedicated to collecting the 5 best types of runes they find. The only time people will trade is if they find extras, and sooner or later, everyone will have plenty of them. *edit: I do not mean to imply that they will be unable to be traded as a currency, but as a mere item. This isn't to say that my original intention wasn't to imply that runes in the way you described WILL NEVER GET THE CHANCE TO BECOME A CURRENCY! *

THEY NEED TO BE DESTROYED!!!!!!!!

Bashiok, your comment is scaring me. Do you guys have any clue what made D2 popular? You can do as many focus group seminars as you'd like. You can talk to as many casual players as you like. But when it comes down to it, every gamer is intrigued by what they CAN HAVE. Once they have it, it means nothing, and just becomes a gloat fest, which gets boring.

If everyone has everything the game gets stale and no one cares. Which is exactly why gold can not be the standard currency. With gold, you have a static drop. It will ALWAYS ACCUMULATE. You know as a game designer that you can't put more gold sinks in than players can earn gold. Therefore players will always be making gold. There will always be an end. Save up 'x' amount of money, then you have the best items.

With random drops, you don't have that. It might end tomorrow, it might end 5 years from now. You dont know! But i KNOW that i will be playing and playing and playing until that drop finally comes, or until I trade enough other drops for my best items.

OH JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE TELL me you aren't going to pull a WOW on diablo. PLEASE TELL ME YOURE NOT PLANNING ON PATCHING CLASSES/SKILLS/ETC every few months to force players to completely redo their characters. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, naa... no you wouldn't do that, you have ladder resets.

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Q u o t e:


In addition, the high end runes are intended to be very rare.

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it will be like finding Zod or Ber in d2?

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Q u o t e:
B. Duping will be an issue allowing rare items to become common

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You say there will be duping :O ?

I HOPE SO, there will not be a way to dupe and also there would not come any way to buy some stuff for dollars, cause as I said it would destroy the balance.

I think an Auction-House would be the best way for such problems or as I also said make only such epic runes boundable. I don't talk about to make more things boundable, only such very rare things.

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Q u o t e:
The currency thing keeps coming up so let me try to address that as best I can.

High runes in Diablo II became a currency for a few reasons. One (and most importantly) because they were necessary to create some of the most powerful/sought after items in the game post-1.10, two because they were duplicated allowing enough of them to be common enough to become a currency, and three the actual currency (gold) was essentially worthless. Before high runes the currency was Stones of Jordan, again, duping is the main issue here for how they were allowed to become a common currency.

If they were only being picked up legitimately there simply wouldn't be enough of them circulating to become a common currency.

Now, just because word "rune" is used for the runes in Diablo III it does not mean:
A. They will be the most sought after items in the game (although they could be)
B. Duping will be an issue allowing rare items to become common
C. There won't be a better and more appropriate currency

BUT, despite all this, we still want item trades to be useful. There is nothing wrong with people trading items for other items. It only becomes an issue when the barrier of entry into general trading becomes prohibitive due to secondary currency markets based on illegitimate items. And it won't happen as long as there is a intentional and low-barrier currency (gold), and the game is designed and maintained as to not allow creation of illegitimate items.

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Another issue i recently thought about which concerns this post is when you mention point B.

RIDICULOUS! The only thing duping did to the rune "currency" was make HR's currency instead of Mid-Runes. If there was no duping, people would be collecting lem/pul/um/ist etc as their "HR's" and combining them by them self.

This game is no longer diablo. I just don't think the current team knows what theyre doing for a "Diablo game." It is no doubt "inspired" but Diablo, but its in the same way the RE movies were inspired by the RE games. No doubt it'll be fun, but for how long? Catering to the casual crowd always makes a ****ty game. I simply don't understand the logic behind dumbing down a ssytem when the old one was so unbelievably successful. Don't dumb it down, make it better, It obviously SHOULD be the main way to trade.

Lastly, Gold should NOT be the currency, EVER! For the reasons I posted above. The currency must be a random drop. Hell, make a currency that is a random drop. Make it function JUST like gold, except it has completely different drop mechanics. Make it drop as rarely as a HEL in D2. Add some better ones that are more rare that give you more currency.

Just don't make it GOLD. Gold has its place in the diablo world. Gold is supposed to let you buy new items when you are a new character and thats about it. How are you going to deal with that? I just start my level 1 Wizard, and I reach ACT2 and notice I never upgraded my boots. Am I stuck? I have to be lucky and go find them off an enemy? Or can I just go buy them. Oh wait, gold is much rarer, and now I don't have any to spare. Or actually, I just went on the AH and bought the best boots possible. Now I don't even have to bother looking for anything.

Let me repeat some more reasons gold sucks as a currency. ALL ITEMS CONVERT TO GOLD. That is why the actually currency needs to be a random drop. Without BOE items, no one will ever lose ANY GOLD. If they buy something, they just sell it again for the same price and upgrade. And continue doing it.

so many things wrong with gold as the currency. /incoherent rant over

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Q u o t e:


Another issue i recently thought about which concerns this post is when you mention point B.

RIDICULOUS! The only thing duping did to the rune "currency" was make HR's currency instead of Mid-Runes. If there was no duping, people would be collecting lem/pul/um/ist etc as their "HR's" and combining them by them self.

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You are assuming you can combine runes in D3 to upgrade to the next higher tier as you could in D2. Assumptions are folly most of the time regardless, but from what I've seen I'd go so far as to say (and certainly you have to admit it's possible) that runes will not be upgradeable at all.

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Q u o t e:

This game is no longer diablo. I just don't think the current team knows what theyre doing for a "Diablo game." It is no doubt "inspired" but Diablo, but its in the same way the RE movies were inspired by the RE games. No doubt it'll be fun, but for how long? Catering to the casual crowd always makes a ****ty game. I simply don't understand the logic behind dumbing down a ssytem when the old one was so unbelievably successful. Don't dumb it down, make it better, It obviously SHOULD be the main way to trade.

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OMG the sky is falling!! You really need to stop being over-dramatic. Saying the game is no longer Diablo based on a runes system in development is so ridiculous on so many levels I can barely bring myself to address it other than to say if you are that short sighted and close minded to make your decision on the final product of D3 right now 1+ years away from release you have bigger issues than just your tendancy for melodramatic sensationalism.

I don't see this catering to the casual crowd or dumbing down the process AT ALL. In D2, you collected low level and mid-level runes and as soon as you got 3 combined them to upgrade. Rinse, repeat and hope for a high level rune once every 6 months or so if your lucky. Are you telling me that isn't an overly simple process - a "dumbed" down process? Cause seriously that was pretty much as simple as it got.

IMO The new rune system should foster experimentation and if I don't like a runes effect I'll be more inclined to trade it to you for one that I do like. In D3 I try runes if I don't like their effects I can trade them to someone who does. Unlike runes in D2 where you just kept them (regardless of their effect) for the larger end goal of creating a rune word (which you likely never got to do).

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Q u o t e:

Lastly, Gold should NOT be the currency, EVER! For the reasons I posted above. The currency must be a random drop. Hell, make a currency that is a random drop. Make it function JUST like gold, except it has completely different drop mechanics. Make it drop as rarely as a HEL in D2. Add some better ones that are more rare that give you more currency.

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You forgot the "IMO". Blizzard has it's own, so do I. I guess I'm thankful Blizzard is making D3 and not you.

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Q u o t e:

Just don't make it GOLD. Gold has its place in the diablo world. Gold is supposed to let you buy new items when you are a new character and thats about it. How are you going to deal with that? I just start my level 1 Wizard, and I reach ACT2 and notice I never upgraded my boots. Am I stuck? I have to be lucky and go find them off an enemy? Or can I just go buy them. Oh wait, gold is much rarer, and now I don't have any to spare. Or actually, I just went on the AH and bought the best boots possible. Now I don't even have to bother looking for anything.

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Wrong. Gold had it's place in D2. Blizzard is stating that the role gold had in D2 was never supposed to be. Due to the reasons Bashiok mentioned earlier gold was reduced to the role you refer to. With those broken game mechanics fixed and with the introduction of new game mechanics Blizzard intends to re-define golds role likely AS IT WAS INTENDED to be in D2.

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Q u o t e:

Let me repeat some more reasons gold sucks as a currency. ALL ITEMS CONVERT TO GOLD. That is why the actually currency needs to be a random drop. Without BOE items, no one will ever lose ANY GOLD. If they buy something, they just sell it again for the same price and upgrade. And continue doing it.

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You've just stated precisely why gold CAN WORK as a currency. People will lose gold if there are legitimate uses for it (AKA gold sinks) and you just mentioned (potentially) one of them. If you have to pay to resocket you need to use/lose your gold, so there you go you just proved that gold can have value.

Again you are assuming you can sell to vendors at inflated prices or without penalty etc.

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Q u o t e:

so many things wrong with gold as the currency. /incoherent rant over

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Wrong. So many things wrong with gold as the currency IN D2. Big difference.

Also everyone needs to stop thinking that gold will be as abundant as it was in D2. Don't assume every piece of crappy plate you find will net you 30K to a vendor. There are so many ways to balance the distribution of gold better than was done in D2, that I can't even begin to get into them here. As it is this post is already pushing the borders of TLDR.